Some evenings, when Pinch and I drive home from work, we see familiar figures. These guys are trudging along, almost weighed down by their laptops and they seem to be on their way home. It makes me feel really sad and we generally try to give a ride to these Indian programmers. It strikes me as completely unjust how their parent firms treat them. Many of these guys leave their families behind and come to the USA to work for these huge multi-million companies. They provide world-class quality work at dirt-cheap rates and after all that, if the parent company can’t even provide them with basic amenities, it amounts to a shitty situation. One of my colleagues was telling me that when he first came here, his daughter was about 2 years old. He didn’t have a car and depended on his colleagues to take him around. One day, he saw his daughter playing with a plastic cup and he reached his flash point. He felt awful about not even being able to buy toys for his baby girl. He called a friend and they went to Walmart to purchase some toys for the child.
Atlanta is a huge city and without a vehicle, it is impossible to get around. There are so many companies here that recruit H1-B professionals for projects. I am sure that it is not difficult at all for the parent company to buy a few used cars and have them for common use by the employees. It is the least that they can do for these hardworking chaps. God knows that it is not a dollar-paved path here. So many people have difficulty adjusting to the weather. Others face problems in bringing their families here. In some cities, the cost of living is so high that there is not much of income that can be saved. The attitude these parent companies have is: Abe USA jaa raha hain, dollar mein kamaayega, kya problem hain?
P.S:- Based on everyone’s comments, it seems that it is a not-so-bad situation for Indian consultants out there. Not so sure if my concern is misdirected. Nevertheless, it always helps to have a good public transport system…:-)
warmpinkglow says:
I am completely shocked by this post.
I can’t quite gather my thoughts well enough to make a comment as I am sick and, frankly, this post shocked and surprised me. I will, and will respond.
November 16, 2005 — 1:52 pm
Lakshmi says:
🙂
No hurry to respond, Erica. Take your time, get well soon!
November 16, 2005 — 1:59 pm
lalunadiosa says:
One more thing to add to my list of things-that-are-wrong-with-the-world!!!!
November 16, 2005 — 2:07 pm
Lakshmi says:
🙂 Guess you should ditch the list!
November 16, 2005 — 2:13 pm
Anonymous says:
Am not quite totally with you on this one locks. In many occasions its people who “choose” to live that way and not being forced to live that way.
The “US jaa raha hain dollar kamayega attitude” probably existed several years back. Most big organizations are now mature enough not to give that treatment.
If you are not able to take overnight changes of country, culture, people, weather in your stride, I dont think you are cut out for the job. And if you dont get paid enough, you can opt not to take it up in the first place!
-s@lim
November 16, 2005 — 3:25 pm
Lakshmi says:
The “US jaa raha hain dollar kamayega attitude” probably existed several years back. Most big organizations are now mature enough not to give that treatment.
You should listen to the tales of consultants who come to USA on H1-B visas, Sallu. Some Indian companies may be considerate but not all are… that I can vouch for.
November 17, 2005 — 5:24 am
trycatchdenz says:
Your post is thought provoking to say the least and I am not sure what your basis is. But that said, I would say not all IT companies treat their employees thus – I would say most North American companies and yeah a few Indian companies (that I know of) too, *pamper* (not quite but you get the drift, eh? :)) their employees. Ok I am going over board, but let me say they take good care.
I mean the law here (in North America) stipulates that you have to pay a certain minimum (and no I am not talking about minimum wage) and all of them go by the book.
With due respect, I think it is more of an issue of the employee wanting to save than anything else. Money earned in dollars when spent in rupees amounts to a lot.
Laks, your post rocked.
Cheerz,
Denz
November 16, 2005 — 5:27 pm
Lakshmi says:
Denz, I am not talking about the wages or pay here. I was merely mentioning about the problem of conveyance that guys in Atlanta face.
Laks, your post rocked.
Thanks!
November 17, 2005 — 5:26 am
trycatchdenz says:
Oh – btw – keep up the good work of the lifts… That is awesome…
Cheerz,
Denz
November 16, 2005 — 5:29 pm
Lakshmi says:
Kya lifts???
November 17, 2005 — 5:26 am
trycatchdenz says:
Yeh lifts – duh…
>“we generally try to give a ride to these Indian programmers.”
Cheerz,
Denz
December 8, 2005 — 4:06 pm
trycatchdenz says:
Yeh lifts – duh…
>“we generally try to give a ride to these Indian programmers.”
Cheerz,
Denz
December 8, 2005 — 4:06 pm
arunshanbhag says:
I don’t know what the pay situation is, but if these guys come here for a few months, they really cannot buy and drive a car around. Particulalry in Atlanta, you absolutely need a car.
Here in boston, the public transportation is excellent and i see a lot of weighed down techies on the trains. Perhaps the local companies should offer a shuttle to 1 or 2 recommended apartment complexes.
thanks for sharing the plight of the new IT workers.
O, last year one of our friends, friends was here on assignment and they were asked to work all through the Thanksgiving weekend! I actually had to pick her up at her company at 7 pm on Thanksgiving day. She said the other indians were still there working and would be there all weekend !!!
November 16, 2005 — 5:43 pm
Lakshmi says:
Wish Atlanta had a decent public transport system…:-(
Hate the way the car has turned into an absolute necessity out here.
November 17, 2005 — 5:27 am
gotjanx says:
Man, they should let us Indians off during thanksgiving. After all we are the ones who have to be really thankful — if Columbus had found us, we’d be the ones wiped out/living in reservations.
November 17, 2005 — 8:42 am
arunshanbhag says:
True.
November 17, 2005 — 9:39 am
gotjanx says:
What sentimental bosh!
No offence , but these guys aren’t being chained to this country. They choose to lead this life — they could easily choose to go back or find another job. Plus I’ve seen far too many desis who choose this life, just to save money. As a wise uncle would say abt the ‘gelf’ — these guys live like they will have to leave the country the next day.
And that is so true of these people too. I am not saying its not a bad lifestyle, but frankly with millions dying of malaria maybe your concern is being misdirected. Plastic cup is ridiculous!!
If this post is specifically for people who come here onsite from India, then its a different ball game, I can understand the car bit — but friends who arrive here for short term do seem get a decent pay.
November 16, 2005 — 6:08 pm
Lakshmi says:
Chetta, I was talking specifically about the conveyance situation in Atlanta for consultants who come here for projects. Also, the point here is not about a decent pay, just about helping the ‘getting-around’ situation that the parent company can contribute to.
I am not saying its not a bad lifestyle, but frankly with millions dying of malaria maybe your concern is being misdirected. Plastic cup is ridiculous!!
🙂 My compassion and concern is not limited to H1-B professionals alone!
November 17, 2005 — 5:29 am
Lakshmi says:
Oohh, by the way, I meant to call you Chetta, as in Etta (elder bro) and not ‘chetta’ as it may have sounded, which you know is definitely not a nice name to call anyone…:-)
November 17, 2005 — 5:52 am
gotjanx says:
*grin* Thanks. If you hadn’t clarified…
I agree there are companies that could do more for their onsite workers, but as others have pointed out — car rentals are 400$ a month. Would it kill these workers to go out and get a car , even say between two – three of them. No, cause you have to save money for the downpayment of that nice three bedroom flat you bought. Which also makes sense, but its a matter of choice.
So your friend saw his kid play with a plastic cup and then went to Walmart *grin* Whoa. Must have blown his entire savings there, eh ?
November 17, 2005 — 8:40 am
Lakshmi says:
Maybe it wouldn’t kill these guys to go get a rental car. Meanwhile, is it simple to get all these matters done if you have no credit history? I am quite a newbie around these issues and so any input is appreciated.
The charm of biting sarcasm, haven’t forgotten how it feels…:-)
November 17, 2005 — 8:45 am
gotjanx says:
With a international license and a international credit card, yeah sure.
Ouch! None of it is directed towards you dear aniyathi (sp), you should realize :).
I actually have a question for you — aren’t you sposed to be in grad school somewhere ?
November 17, 2005 — 8:48 am
Lakshmi says:
An international credit card? You mean, an international credit card issued in India? Didn’t know that.
Well, I did get an admit into B-school but chickened out when it came to joining. Ended up joining work instead.
November 17, 2005 — 9:53 am
deelight says:
Sad but despite that everyone runs for the dollar dreams. Ironic.
November 17, 2005 — 1:20 am
deelight says:
Car is now becoming a way of life in India or should I say urban India too…ask me! Easy loans and a range of models to choose from have led to traffic jams and need for better infrastructure.
November 17, 2005 — 1:23 am
Lakshmi says:
Really true. All I am saying is, if the parent company had some kind of a setup, it’d help these guys greatly. Also, the situation is probably not as bad as I’ve painted it out to be. Just that it could be a whole lot better, in my opinion.
November 17, 2005 — 5:33 am
Lakshmi says:
Now I know what posts to put up in order to draw you our of your self-imposed hibernation…:-)
November 17, 2005 — 5:53 am
srusrid says:
wierd…i have always known the s/w professionals to be a pretty comfy lot…there usually ends up being a network to help people settle in…
felt i was back in engg college..with people giving fundaes (pretty useful ones too!) as to what to do and where to buy..and the sal is pretty decent to have a very very comfortable living!!
the car funda..well…i think there are enough resources for people to remedy their immobility if they had to…especially with used cars and what nots available…
somehow the plastic cup seems so….avoidable a situation!!
November 17, 2005 — 6:48 am
Lakshmi says:
🙂
Good to know that you had it smooth, Sru.
November 17, 2005 — 7:04 am
tomlinsonian says:
Here in the bay area,I’ve noticed only three classes of people walking – Hispanics, Indian software engineers and Indian students.
I have walked in the shoes of the latter!!
November 17, 2005 — 8:22 am
Lakshmi says:
As long as you enjoyed the walk in those shoes, Manu…:-)
Good to see you back. Hopefully such posts of mine will bring the likes of you and out of hiding…:-)
November 17, 2005 — 8:46 am
fugney says:
Nevertheless, it always helps to have a good public transport system…:-)
Which is why I’m anti-sprawl:)
November 17, 2005 — 9:16 am
Lakshmi says:
I have nothing against sprawl but public transport, yes, yes!
November 17, 2005 — 9:53 am
mallu says:
Let me tell you a real-life experience I had when I tried to sell my car to 4 consultants from Infy working in Amex.
Now, I knew for sure that the Infy guys get good pay. I asked price below KBB rate and so these dudes called me up and said could I come and show the car. Well, I went, they liked the car and then started negotiations.
I said – look guys 5k or nothing – kapish – and one of the guys tells me – Ullas you are from India too… You know how it is, “I have come here with the intent to save every single penny I can”. His argument was since his project was for only 1 year, he did have to find someone to buy out his share (ya share) of the car and so he wanted to minimize the loss.
I thought – man I must look like an idiot to these guys, after all I did give up a job at SBC to become a graduate student.
While Lakshmi (my better half) at times shows pity at the guys who you can see waiting at Safeway, Walmart etc – If they are waiting, let them wait – they chose to come to US with full knowledge of what they are getting into.
My first month in US, I did not have a car since I didnt have a license, from second month onwards I drove a car on monthly rental – yup friends called me crazy and most still do. And I originally came on a 6 month project only.
November 17, 2005 — 3:20 pm
Lakshmi says:
🙂
Ullas, you certainly drove your point home what with 3 entries for the same comment!
My concern was not so much about the salary, pay etc. aspect as it was about how lack of credit history and such related matters made it difficult for these guys to get a phone, car loan etc. Is that not true?
November 18, 2005 — 5:44 am
Anonymous says:
No, it is not true. If you dont have credit history – you could get a Credit Card that is secured – the limit will be equal to the amount of security you put. The same goes for almost everything, you can get a phone even without credit but you will have to put up a deposit.
I took a car on monthly rental – the month after I came to US. How much credit history would I have then ? I did have a credit card from DCU – Digitial Federal Credit Union (more aptly called Desi Credit Union since almost all FOBs would end up having one). It was a card you could obtain only by referral from an existing member. These days they have stopped issuing the cards to new members without a security. In fact, over the years, I have introduced a number of FOBs to DCU.
Btw, the multiple entries was due to FireFox hanging up on me.
November 18, 2005 — 11:34 am
mallu says:
Let me tell you a real-life experience I had when I tried to sell my car to 4 consultants from Infy working in Amex.
Now, I knew for sure that the Infy guys get good pay. I asked price below KBB rate and so these dudes called me up and said could I come and show the car. Well, I went, they liked the car and then started negotiations.
I said – look guys 5k or nothing – kapish – and one of the guys tells me – Ullas you are from India too… You know how it is, “I have come here with the intent to save every single penny I can”. His argument was since his project was for only 1 year, he did have to find someone to buy out his share (ya share) of the car and so he wanted to minimize the loss.
I thought – man I must look like an idiot to these guys, after all I did give up a job at SBC to become a graduate student.
While Lakshmi (my better half) at times shows pity at the guys who you can see waiting at Safeway, Walmart etc – If they are waiting, let them wait – they chose to come to US with full knowledge of what they are getting into.
My first month in US, I did not have a car since I didnt have a license, from second month onwards I drove a car on monthly rental – yup friends called me crazy and most still do.
November 17, 2005 — 3:21 pm
mallu says:
Let me tell you a real-life experience I had when I tried to sell my car to 4 consultants from Infy working in Amex. (names given to show they worked for big firms)
Now, I knew for sure that the Infy guys get good pay. I asked price below KBB rate and so these dudes called me up and said could I come and show the car. Well, I went, they liked the car and then started negotiations.
I said – look guys 5k or nothing – kapish – and one of the guys tells me – Ullas you are from India too… You know how it is, “I have come here with the intent to save every single penny I can”. His argument was since his project was for only 1 year, he did have to find someone to buy out his share (ya share) of the car and so he wanted to minimize the loss.
I thought – man I must look like an idiot to these guys, after all I did give up a job at SBC to become a graduate student.
While Lakshmi (my better half) at times shows pity at the guys who you can see waiting at Safeway, Walmart etc – If they are waiting, let them wait – they chose to come to US with full knowledge of what they are getting into.
My first month in US, I did not have a car since I didnt have a license, from second month onwards I drove a car on monthly rental – yup friends called me crazy and most still do.
November 17, 2005 — 3:22 pm
deelight says:
🙂 Telepathy ma dear friend.
November 17, 2005 — 9:05 pm
callmedeep says:
am surprised by this posting.
does that really happen! techies without a car in the US!
November 19, 2005 — 3:51 am
harish_an says:
i think its a very difficult situation to generically feel pity for or dismiss
as many have pointed earlier its just a Q of how u want to live and whether buying a car justifies the visit
sometimes it takes time – u cant just get a car even if its cheap from the yard. you need to save some and judge ur ability to buy… see if you are fine driving on the other side of the road. get ur id setup… am sure noone there is expecting sympathy and am sure they wont mind a lift either…
i remember riding a cycle in winter in auckland and then walking a long way to catch the bus and even in sydney i am used to public tranport(and even enjoy it) and taxis for quite sometime.
i would always say … time and distance and comfort are interconvertible parameter
November 20, 2005 — 10:06 pm
pramod says:
Two topics – public transport and Indian techies
I see two topics here. One about public transport and the other the attitude of Indian techies.
I live in Europe, in fact in Switzerland with perhaps one of the worlds best public transport. It is amazing the difference in approach US has compared to Europe. Whenever I travel within Europe, most places I use public transport – be it London or Paris or Madrid or Copenhagen. But the moment one plans a trip to US – its always a rented car! I have seen buses, but they all look more like charter buses than public buses. And none ever near the huge malls.
And I am told it comes from the attitude the people had during the development phase in the 40s-70s. But then apart from the oil-lands, where else do you find so cheap fuel. So cheap that SUVs are actually cool to have! mmm…
About the Indian Consultants – I have lots of friends and quite a few who work for our company. I always feel very uneasy with most of them. Here for sure most of the consultants don’t have much issue with travelling – almost no one has a car anyway – but with a great public transport system that no hassle. But you still find 4 or 6 staying together in a place meant for 2 – and well let me put it this way – saving every penny – meaning other than the customary camera and few sightseeing trips – they dont spend much – even for their kids and family. Its all about saving and going back.
I once had dinner with a group – was amazed to knwo that most of them had worked for 6 months or more in over 6 countries each. But I knew more about those cities from my meagre visits than these guys knew. And at the end of the dinner – it was as if I had to pay for it all, until I asked about sharing! And its not as if they get peanuts – they are all paid well, in fact their savings are much more than most of us.
I don’t understand this attitude nor do I think its appropriate. But let me also add that there are few great guys and gals amongst the crowd – and I am sure they will be the ones who will have a great future and the rest will suffer if there is a downturn.
December 5, 2005 — 10:36 am